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The only Internet-based periodical serving Quality System Internal Auditors

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August 2001


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This Month's Newsletter Contents:

Feature Article.............................................................
Featured Book............................................................
Question and Answers.............................................
Tips, Tricks, Laughter................................................
Observations from the Field....................................
Monthly Scenario Explained...................................
Element Understanding............................................
Internal Auditor Resources.....................................
The Back Page............................................................
The Small Print...........................................................
Interviewer Ears
Assessing ISO 9000
MR Auditing?
Colored Pens
Sample Size
November 2000
Work Environment
Quality Pursuit
Effective Auditing
Copyright notice

Internal Auditor Resources

If you are looking for such things as pocket resources, then Quality Pursuit. is the place to look. Quality Pursuit offers pocket guides, training materials, and documentation. They even have a downloadable ISO 9K2K policy manual.

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Featured Book of the Month:

Title: Assessing ISO 9000 for Your Business : Key Elements and Strategies
Author: Tom Taormina
Publisher: Government Institutes

Notes: ISO 9000 has become the defacto quality standard in over 140 countries. It's popularity is due to its elegantly simple tenets that will help any company with their strategic quality improvement efforts. This book is written in lay language to help you make an informed decision if ISO 9000 is right for your organization and how to implement it in most any environment

 


 

You can order this book from internal-auditor.com at: http://www.internal-auditor.com/books.htm


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This Month's Feature Article

Interviewer’s Ears

Internal auditors obtain objective evidence through three ways:

  • Observation        
  • Examination         
  • Interviewing

In observation, we are watching and making notes on what we see. With examination, we are looking into records, and other data. Although, we do not want to diminish the importance of those two activities, we are going to focus on the third method of obtaining objective evidence: interviewing. The interview is the internal audit activity that has the greatest involvement and impact on the auditee. It is at this level that the auditor will receive his/her reputation.

The auditor, through his/her actions, makes or breaks the interview. The questions asked, the way they are asked, and how the answers are interpreted determine the interview success. So what can the auditor do to ensure an effective interview? There are three things:

  • Ask the right question
  • Ask the right way
  • Understand the answer

As is our methodology, let’s examine each of these.

Ask the right question

Asking the right question begins in the preparation phase of the audit. An understanding of the requirements, the procedures, work instructions and forms play a major role in asking the right questions. Use this information to generate a checklist that is meaningful. Before the audit, you should know what you are going to ask and what evidence you will be looking for.

Some quick interview guidelines. Audits can be disturbing, so keep in mind the reason for the audit Review of Quality System, not the auditee. You are trying to identify areas for improvement. And you must avoid an atmosphere of blame

Ask one question at a time, and listen for the answer. Don’t be surprised if the auditee answers question one and question four in their response. If you listen you will know they answered question four, if you were too busy thinking about the next question you will not. Later when you get to question four, the auditee will be irritated with you.

Likewise the auditee might answer the wrong question, or their answer might have nothing to do with the question asked. This may be due to their lack of understanding. Your question must be clear to the auditee.

Make sure your questions are understandable. Avoid leading questions, where the answer is part of the question: “Now, your management review meetings are scheduled for every three months, right” Likewise avoid questions that have no correct answer. Questions also must not be accusatory in any way.

Ask the right way

As important as asking the right question is, how you ask it can be even more important. The auditor’s tone of voice alone can lead to the auditee becoming defensive, or even confrontational.

A quick example. Repeat the following phrase, placing emphasis on a different word each time. How does the meaning change with each change in emphasis:

“I did not tell your manager the report was not finished.”

The way we ask the question may have a dramatic impact on the auditee’s ability, or desire to answer. Our tone and mannerisms should relay and inspire confidence to the auditee.

How you ask can also get an otherwise uncooperative auditee to cooperate. If they get the feeling you are not out to “get” them, and if you show you are genuinely interested, they might relax enough to answer your questions without politics.

When all else fails and you can’t get the auditee to open up and answer any questions try the awesome, powerful, world famous, one and only inquiring pause. The auditee will usually fill any time gaps with information

Understand the answer

Asking the right question and asking the question the right way will go far in making an effective interview. But we need to go much farther. It is too easy to get wrapped up in the question, itself. We want to impress the auditee with our questions, so we spend a great deal of time and energy in developing the perfect question. In many cases, the internal auditor asks a question, and while the auditee is answering, the auditor is thinking about the next question.

Notice we said understand the answer. We did not say hear, or write down the answer. You need to think about and consider the answer. We already discussed auditees answering the wrong question, or answering more than one question. The auditor must be able to understand the response of the auditee.

This may require additional or follow-up questions. It may require asking for clarification, or even rephrasing the original question. Follow up with such phrases as: how, who, what, where, when and show me.

Take time to write the answer down, and discuss it with the auditee. Make sure they know ahead of time that you will be writing down the answer. You must make sure they know what you are writing, and you are recording them accurately.

Once the answer is obtained, the auditor must also be able to make sense of answer means. Analyzing the answers is also important. You can’t analyze a set of notes you can’t read.

Although this issue is titled Interviewer Ears, good interviewing practices go much farther than listening.

You need to be able to read body language as you interview people, as well as being aware of what your own body language is telling them. Here are 7 categories of body language. Pick each category and think of two examples that would fit into that category. Determine if the examples would be positive or negative examples of body language

  • Body Posture
  • Hand or arm movements
  • Gestures (other than that one)
  • Facial Expressions
  • Dress or attire
  • Distance between auditor and auditee
  • Eye Contact

Body language is normally a combination of each of these. Also bear in mind individuals and cultural differences in body language.

Summary:

The interview is the most critical phase of an internal audit. From the questions to the answers, to the analysis, the internal auditor must take care that each detail is carefully planned and recorded. At the interview, the auditor and auditee must both come away with the feeling that the interview and the audit went well and that each did a good job. Only then, will the audit process be truly effective and the auditor’s reputation be enhanced.

As always...Good Auditing!

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Question and Answers:

Q – As a Management Rep, what areas am I allowed to audit?

A – Going back to the standard, the requirement is that you don’t audit your own work. Auditing the work of others should not be a problem, provided you can demonstrate lack of bias and it is not prohibited by your own procedures. A lot of folks make a big deal of this. It is important to remember that intent of the standard is to have an effective Quality Management System. If I were the Management Rep, and given the resources, I would attempt to keep out of internal audits. It would allow me to spend my time running the QMS. Most organizations do not have that luxury, and having the Management Rep audit is just part of plan.

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Tips, Tricks, Laughter

When conducting interviews with several different people at the same time, it could be confusing remembering who said what. Here is a tip that can help. Use different colored pens when interviewing several people:

Use three different color pens if you are interviewing three different people with the same questions. Start off writing down each persons name in the pen color then record all of their answers using that pen.

This is a handy way to recall “who said what” if there is a conflict that surfaces later and requires a follow up for clarity

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Observations from the Field

At one shop it was common to have an area perform quite well one audit, and fairly poorly the next. As part of their continuous improvement, they performed an analysis to determine why. The result was their sample size was small, and many of the problems went unnoticed. Eventually, the nonconformances would be uncovered. Their corrective action was to increase the sample size of audits, and cover a broader area. The result was more nonconformances were uncovered. As time progressed, the number of nonconformances fell showing the system was once again working.

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Element Understanding:

ISO 900: 6.4 Work environment

“The organization shall determine and manage the work environment needed to achieve conformity to product requirements.”

This is from the 1994 edition that required a suitable environment (4.9b). QS-9000 added Cleanliness of Premises – 4.9.b.1. The key requirement here is that the work environment cannot interfere with the realization of acceptable product. There are two separate “shalls” in this clause. First, you must determine, that is, you must analyze and decide what type of work environment is required to ensure product conformity. Evidence might be found in part of your contract review, or product planning. The second “shall” is to manage the work environment. Cleanliness of premises plays a role, but so does preventive maintenance, lighting, and all other aspects of the work environment. Showing evidence may be somewhat difficult here, because there are so many possible variables. Evidence of failure should be evident, however.

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Monthly Scenario Explained:

November 2000’s question:

Your procedure outlines the Sales Manager as the one responsible for customer-initiated corrective actions. You are auditing a sample of applicable corrective actions since the last audit. Although your sample size should be five, only three corrective actions were initiated by customers during the time frame. One complaint catches your eye. The complaint is about sudden product failure with no advance warning. Knowing your product, you realize that this could have catastrophic consequences, include potential loss of life. The corrective action determines that less than one-half of one percent of the product may be subject to this type of failure. The cost of correcting the defect is extremely high, and there is no way to determine if a product has the defect without destructive testing. The decision was made not to enact any type of corrective action. When questioned about this, the Sales Manager responds that the standard allows organizations to limit the corrective action to those whose magnitude and risk make the corrective action practical. The problem was identified, a root cause was determined, but the corrective action was not economically feasible.

 The answer:

This is a tough situation. The auditor must be able to attach a nonconformance to a specific “shall”, or requirement. The corrective action requirement in the standard is tied to the magnitude of the problem and commensurate with risks encountered, but “magnitude” and “commensurate” are relative terms. The question boils down to whether the internal auditor is more qualified to define those terms than the team investigating the corrective action. In this case, no nonconformance was written, but the auditor did initiate a preventive action request.

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The Back Page: We spend a lot of time talking about credibility and reputation. We do so because we know how important both are to an effective system. But we also know that credibility and reputation are not enough. Your internal audit must also be accurate and effective. Interviewing technique is just a small part of audit effectiveness. In order to have a fully effective internal audit program, all aspects of the program must be effective. From scheduling, auditor selection, audit conduct, audit reporting, corrective actions to Management review of the audit program, each activity needs to be continually assessed for effectiveness and efficiency.

What steps, what practices do you do take to gauge your programs effectiveness and efficiency? How do you monitor your internal auditing to ensure your goals are being met? Let us know, we will publish them and of course give you credit (or not, if you wish to remain anonymous).

...Good auditing!

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Because this site uses information from many different sources, it must be pointed out that any advice, tips, information, etc., provided should be regarded as opinion and not fact! What works well for one company may be a disaster for another. Also, what one registrar, or auditor may allow, another may not. As always, reflect on what you read, see if it fits into your own quality system, and if it conflicts with your auditor...you've got to make a decision

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Last updated: February 25, 2003.